"Democrats just don’t challenge their leaders, and in fact punish those who try."
This is a painful admission in so far as it very clearly applies to the GOP as well. It's not shocking to see a party that seems to be wholly devoted to a carnival barker like trump behave this way. It's an entirely more disheartening thing to see the only organized opposition behaving the same way.
I have been listening to the news and paying attention to Joe Biden. Last night was vastly different than his other performances. The haggard look of a deer caught in the headlights, the raspy voice [yes, he had a cold but], the hesitant steps to and from the podium...
Yes, he is old, but something was definitely off last night, like he had been drugged, someone slipped him a mickey. It was that shocking.
Jordan makes a good point that there are way too many old folks who hanged on until an advanced stage of senility that marred their legacy., and Jordan names names and I agree with every pick, either R or D, including RBG.
Do you think perhaps there is too much money and power attached to being a politician, and it is easier for them to hang on because Pages and Interns do most of the work anyway?
David also makes a great point that trying to switch horses in the middle of the race is suicidal, as there is nowhere near enough time to make the switch [Primary ballots are already being printed and voted on, for Christ Sake!].
These two candidates 2 candidates are pretty close to the same age, and both are suffering with gaffes, memory lapses, mispronunciation and confusion. We were shocked by Joe Biden's performance, but perhaps it is because the depth of his problem was hidden from us by a Party that has always tried to force consensus to save the Public from long dissentions in the ranks. Trump may show less frailty, but the "Cofefe President", with his word salads and his promises of retaliation has a much much darker soul.
The following are more important differences for the choices we face:
* Joe Biden is smart enough to LISTEN to his advisors, and he picks good ones, with substance. His decisions are usually good and measured [even if I don't agree with his absolute support for Netanyahu]. He does get the job done.
* Trump has so much hubris in him that he listen only to his good pleasure, and his "picks" for his women, his associates, his cabinet, have nearly all gone on to disavow him. NONE of the people who have worked for him in the past hare sticking around/ endorsing him this term.
And as we are speaking of the Parties who support these candidates:
* The Democratic Party actually has a good PLATFORM., in line with our Constitution and our allies.
* The Republican Party has not published an official Platform since before 2016!: How dare they ask us for our support when they do not dare to say where they intend to lead us? [Project 2025 is not a platform, it is a vicious plan, hatched in secret by folks whose name we do not know for the most part.]
*The Republican 'Platform' seems to be Whatever Trump is thinking that day and he goes with whomever flattered him last. You cannot run a country by going golfing every weekend and criming in between, getting your Presidential Daily Bulletin read to you because you don't care to read it yourself.
Much more than 2 men, there are 2 Parties: Earth one and Earth Two.
Earth One is working for the good of the people and the good of the Nation. Earth two is running to enrich itself and destroy the American system of Government while supporting a criminal who is running to stay out of prison.
I know where I stand, and for whom.
One last comment: this morning, I listened in Stevens Point , Wisconsin ,to a man who has always had to good of the People at heart, a man who was bushwhacked by Mr. Clyburn when he was winning every debate and every primary.
This morning, Bernie still had the same message: "Not Me, Us". It was raining, we were drenched, and he was right.
You see, Public Service entails love of your country and your neighbors, dedication and integrity, even against injustice. In spite of what was done to him, twice, he still labors in spite of it all to support Joe Biden and the Democratic Party.
"Not me, us".
That is a slogan that all these old folks in Congress or in the Justice system should take to heart...
Amend the debate rules to require instant fact checking. The liar's mic is turned off until the lie is corrected, and that time lost can't be recouped. This will educate the audience.
That said, Democrats are plagued with a certain ennui that frustrates their voting constituents no end. Some members are simply selfish so that they refuse to team play for the benefit of what could be progress for the entire Country.
It would offer a lot of trolling opportunities to MAGGOTS, so best to just do better next time. Toward that goal, amending the rules as I suggested should serve Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
1. This whole piece is steeped in ageism. You may think differently after a few more trips around the sun. 2. It’s too late. Changing the top of the ticket at this stage of the game would be a disaster. Biden is our candidate and every thing you write needs to be promoting his candidacy. 3. Biden may be old, but he’s doing a damn good job as president. 4. RBG, really? You are forgetting that Mitch McTurtle wasn’t confirming Obama nominees. She was supposed to retire the minute Obama got elected? She was still doing important and excellent work. See point 1.
It's not ageism, it's recognizing the reality of what we saw on TV last night and what a vast majority of *Democrats* have been tell pollsters for the last year. It's not a judgment on his performance as president, it's recognition of what voters want going forward. You can't force them to take their medicine. And RBG was asked to retire in 2011, when she was 80.
I have been similarly frustrated. I thought Biden promised to step aside after one term, and I wish he had. But we needed that conversation a year ago. The New York Times is calling for Biden to step down. If he does, their next headline will be “Democrats in Disarray!” We can own a better narrative, if we agree that Biden is our only hope against disaster. Our narrative needs to be that Biden had a bad day, but Trump lied and will take away reproductive rights for all. Polls of dems are fraught. I would tell a pollster I don’t think our country is going in the right direction, Biden is wrong on Israel/Gaza, and Biden is too old, but I’ll still vote for Biden. What we can’t tolerate is people on our side feeding the narrative that we need a new candidate.
I get it. It’s like Global Warming. Hard to believe until it was on top of us and it’s too late. What’s your Plan B if Biden doesn’t drop out and he plummets in the polls?
“Remember, nobody is happy with the economy, the catastrophe in Gaza, or immigration, either.”
Big statement, Jordan…wrong and unfair. To change horses now is suicidal. Start attacking the real problems: 1. Trump, and 2. The news media that ignores 30 massive lies in a critical debate, because ‘Biden is old.’
I am plenty happy with the economy, as are millions of others. Gaza is an Israel right-wing shit show, but what would you do, huh? And immigration being stuck in the mud was caused by unanimous Republican obstruction.
Stop blaming Biden. Grow some stones and attack the real perps.
I constantly blame Republicans for our problems — just yesterday I ran a whole piece on how they are trying to use the courts to turn the nation's education system into a Bible study. But polls show that people are really down on the economy, and that hasn't really changed in two years. We can blame the media for being suckers — and I do that all the time — but sometimes you have to look at reality and make a change, even if it feels unfair. The stakes are too high to stay the course.
The stakes are too high to make a change now…that’s the truth…and there’s plenty of time if the media can ever stop giving Trump pass after pass. 30 huge lies in the debate, and the Tapper/Bash duo, undoubtedly under orders to be as bothsidesish as possible, let him get away with his bullshit.
Jordan is right. We need another candidate and, if the Democrats are too afraid to tell the emperor he has no clothes, then we the People must take action. I have joined the Jill Stein campaign. Check out her website JillStein2024.com. She is the ideal progressive candidate. We have got to get her on the ballot in every state or we will definitely lose our democracy. If ever there was ever a time to support someone other than the R and D, it is now!
Can you imagine the next debate between Biden and Trump? Nightmare to think about! Biden doesn’t have the ability (not a flaw) to adapt to the MAGA World reality of lies, White Nationalism and corruption. I think Kamala is actually up to it. Let’s all get behind her and give it a good fight.
Y'all need to JUST STOP. The REAL President had a less than stellar night. trumpster-fire IS A CONVICTED FELLON who lies and GRIFTS, 24/7. There is simply NO COMPARISON. WTFU.
I agree there is no comparison. Trump is an evil man. I also believe that except for Gaza (which is a big exception) Biden has been a good president. And I also believe he is the worst candidate we could choose. If Biden wants to serve our country, he should step down and let the Democratic nominee be chosen by an open convention. I think any other candidate they choose would handily beat Trump. Biden might not. Trump told so many horrible lies last night, and Biden was totally ineffective in countering them. In my opinion, the most egregious was when Trump actually accused Democrats of murdering babies. Biden did not even mention that in his reply. All you had to say was “that’s a damn lie“. He could’ve won the debate easily, but he failed miserably.
I highly doubt any swing voters were convinced by Biden, we have to get real about this, its not a sporting event, any other democrat has better odds against Trump in the general
Jordan. Now is not the time. You echo the MAGA narrative with this. We’re already on the ride, we’re already in the game, we stand together or we fall as one. Repubs would never make this mistake.
It brings me no pleasure to say this but Biden will not win an election as things stand right now. There’s no reason to believe he will rebound from this when he’s four or five months older and even more exhausted from campaigning and being the president. We are on the ride, but have arrived at the last possible exit ramp. If we can’t have a frank and uncomfortable discussion about how to move forward now, we’re going to wind up flying off the edge of the cliff.
On Washington Week in review last week, the liberal moderator confided that high level Dem operatives are concerned tht Biden won't make it to November. Another said if Biden doesn't do well in the debate, it is game over. Jordan is right. We need to pull our heads out of the sand, get out of this state of denial and look at another candidate - Jill Stein. Wishful thinking that Biden just might pull it our is not a strategy. We need to get Jill on the ballot. That's my Plan B.
You underestimate the power of angry women and youth. I’m an OBGyn in Texas and I have every right to be downed out right now but it’s just not helpful. So stop. Shake it off. Get ready for a pitched battle but stand and fight.
And also dnkarr the youth I am talking to most are my young OBGyn patients. They are not fooled by distractions because they feel it in their bodies. They will vote blue
Dnkarr- we shoulda but didn’t and that was years ago.
The game has changed and for this present moment we fight with a different strategy: unite all progressive factions to defeat this era’s authoritarianism, and then move more progressive.
Because you’re absolutely right that without youth’s fire we can’t win the long game on climate or justice. But if we don’t all come together and win this year we won’t have a chance to move forward.
That’s what I mean by the long game. It’s like savvy idealism. If progressive factions unite and fight the right enemy now, we can persist to fight more noble battles in 2025. If we fight each other we risk losing it all.
I’d like us all to feel united, but if that’s not possible I’ll try to convince people to just hold hands and vote blue.
Thank you for your thoughtful dialogue. This is how we change the world.🌎
Maryanne- why do you say Congress won’t enact abortion legislation? They will if we win.
And you’re right: we can’t count on youth, but we can try to convince them with our wisdom and experience. Help them understand the long game and the concept of voting defensively.
Dr FS: We can try to convince them with our wisdom and experience? Who you talkin to? We should try learning a thing or two from them. They were the enthusiastic progressive Bernie voters who ended up having to capitulate to the Corporate Donor-Beholden Dems. If we had really been listening to them, we might not be where we are today.
Many of the young voters are completely disillusioned with Biden. They know that abortion will not be re-instated by Congress, or the President, so it's a state issue. They are very angry about Gaza. Don't count on them to vote for Biden.
"Democrats just don’t challenge their leaders, and in fact punish those who try."
This is a painful admission in so far as it very clearly applies to the GOP as well. It's not shocking to see a party that seems to be wholly devoted to a carnival barker like trump behave this way. It's an entirely more disheartening thing to see the only organized opposition behaving the same way.
I have been listening to the news and paying attention to Joe Biden. Last night was vastly different than his other performances. The haggard look of a deer caught in the headlights, the raspy voice [yes, he had a cold but], the hesitant steps to and from the podium...
Yes, he is old, but something was definitely off last night, like he had been drugged, someone slipped him a mickey. It was that shocking.
Jordan makes a good point that there are way too many old folks who hanged on until an advanced stage of senility that marred their legacy., and Jordan names names and I agree with every pick, either R or D, including RBG.
Do you think perhaps there is too much money and power attached to being a politician, and it is easier for them to hang on because Pages and Interns do most of the work anyway?
David also makes a great point that trying to switch horses in the middle of the race is suicidal, as there is nowhere near enough time to make the switch [Primary ballots are already being printed and voted on, for Christ Sake!].
These two candidates 2 candidates are pretty close to the same age, and both are suffering with gaffes, memory lapses, mispronunciation and confusion. We were shocked by Joe Biden's performance, but perhaps it is because the depth of his problem was hidden from us by a Party that has always tried to force consensus to save the Public from long dissentions in the ranks. Trump may show less frailty, but the "Cofefe President", with his word salads and his promises of retaliation has a much much darker soul.
The following are more important differences for the choices we face:
* Joe Biden is smart enough to LISTEN to his advisors, and he picks good ones, with substance. His decisions are usually good and measured [even if I don't agree with his absolute support for Netanyahu]. He does get the job done.
* Trump has so much hubris in him that he listen only to his good pleasure, and his "picks" for his women, his associates, his cabinet, have nearly all gone on to disavow him. NONE of the people who have worked for him in the past hare sticking around/ endorsing him this term.
And as we are speaking of the Parties who support these candidates:
* The Democratic Party actually has a good PLATFORM., in line with our Constitution and our allies.
* The Republican Party has not published an official Platform since before 2016!: How dare they ask us for our support when they do not dare to say where they intend to lead us? [Project 2025 is not a platform, it is a vicious plan, hatched in secret by folks whose name we do not know for the most part.]
*The Republican 'Platform' seems to be Whatever Trump is thinking that day and he goes with whomever flattered him last. You cannot run a country by going golfing every weekend and criming in between, getting your Presidential Daily Bulletin read to you because you don't care to read it yourself.
Much more than 2 men, there are 2 Parties: Earth one and Earth Two.
Earth One is working for the good of the people and the good of the Nation. Earth two is running to enrich itself and destroy the American system of Government while supporting a criminal who is running to stay out of prison.
I know where I stand, and for whom.
One last comment: this morning, I listened in Stevens Point , Wisconsin ,to a man who has always had to good of the People at heart, a man who was bushwhacked by Mr. Clyburn when he was winning every debate and every primary.
This morning, Bernie still had the same message: "Not Me, Us". It was raining, we were drenched, and he was right.
You see, Public Service entails love of your country and your neighbors, dedication and integrity, even against injustice. In spite of what was done to him, twice, he still labors in spite of it all to support Joe Biden and the Democratic Party.
"Not me, us".
That is a slogan that all these old folks in Congress or in the Justice system should take to heart...
Amend the debate rules to require instant fact checking. The liar's mic is turned off until the lie is corrected, and that time lost can't be recouped. This will educate the audience.
That said, Democrats are plagued with a certain ennui that frustrates their voting constituents no end. Some members are simply selfish so that they refuse to team play for the benefit of what could be progress for the entire Country.
OR no more debates.
It would offer a lot of trolling opportunities to MAGGOTS, so best to just do better next time. Toward that goal, amending the rules as I suggested should serve Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
1. This whole piece is steeped in ageism. You may think differently after a few more trips around the sun. 2. It’s too late. Changing the top of the ticket at this stage of the game would be a disaster. Biden is our candidate and every thing you write needs to be promoting his candidacy. 3. Biden may be old, but he’s doing a damn good job as president. 4. RBG, really? You are forgetting that Mitch McTurtle wasn’t confirming Obama nominees. She was supposed to retire the minute Obama got elected? She was still doing important and excellent work. See point 1.
It's not ageism, it's recognizing the reality of what we saw on TV last night and what a vast majority of *Democrats* have been tell pollsters for the last year. It's not a judgment on his performance as president, it's recognition of what voters want going forward. You can't force them to take their medicine. And RBG was asked to retire in 2011, when she was 80.
I have been similarly frustrated. I thought Biden promised to step aside after one term, and I wish he had. But we needed that conversation a year ago. The New York Times is calling for Biden to step down. If he does, their next headline will be “Democrats in Disarray!” We can own a better narrative, if we agree that Biden is our only hope against disaster. Our narrative needs to be that Biden had a bad day, but Trump lied and will take away reproductive rights for all. Polls of dems are fraught. I would tell a pollster I don’t think our country is going in the right direction, Biden is wrong on Israel/Gaza, and Biden is too old, but I’ll still vote for Biden. What we can’t tolerate is people on our side feeding the narrative that we need a new candidate.
I get it. It’s like Global Warming. Hard to believe until it was on top of us and it’s too late. What’s your Plan B if Biden doesn’t drop out and he plummets in the polls?
“Remember, nobody is happy with the economy, the catastrophe in Gaza, or immigration, either.”
Big statement, Jordan…wrong and unfair. To change horses now is suicidal. Start attacking the real problems: 1. Trump, and 2. The news media that ignores 30 massive lies in a critical debate, because ‘Biden is old.’
I am plenty happy with the economy, as are millions of others. Gaza is an Israel right-wing shit show, but what would you do, huh? And immigration being stuck in the mud was caused by unanimous Republican obstruction.
Stop blaming Biden. Grow some stones and attack the real perps.
I constantly blame Republicans for our problems — just yesterday I ran a whole piece on how they are trying to use the courts to turn the nation's education system into a Bible study. But polls show that people are really down on the economy, and that hasn't really changed in two years. We can blame the media for being suckers — and I do that all the time — but sometimes you have to look at reality and make a change, even if it feels unfair. The stakes are too high to stay the course.
The stakes are too high to make a change now…that’s the truth…and there’s plenty of time if the media can ever stop giving Trump pass after pass. 30 huge lies in the debate, and the Tapper/Bash duo, undoubtedly under orders to be as bothsidesish as possible, let him get away with his bullshit.
Now THAT’s the real problem…I’m just sayin’.
Has anyone broached the subject with Gretchen Whitmire?
Whitmer.
Jordan is right. We need another candidate and, if the Democrats are too afraid to tell the emperor he has no clothes, then we the People must take action. I have joined the Jill Stein campaign. Check out her website JillStein2024.com. She is the ideal progressive candidate. We have got to get her on the ballot in every state or we will definitely lose our democracy. If ever there was ever a time to support someone other than the R and D, it is now!
Can you imagine the next debate between Biden and Trump? Nightmare to think about! Biden doesn’t have the ability (not a flaw) to adapt to the MAGA World reality of lies, White Nationalism and corruption. I think Kamala is actually up to it. Let’s all get behind her and give it a good fight.
I like the logic in this piece. I would only add the role of establishment money which keeps things static.
I would also note the continued silence around funding a religious state’s ongoing slaughter, now at a 30 to 1 ratio.
Come to think of it, many things seem to be hard to bring back into the public discourse by now.
Thank you for speaking up.
Loved this! Great summary of the dem party downfall, fingers crossed Biden comes to his senses and steps down, it's a gamble that needs to be taken.
Y'all need to JUST STOP. The REAL President had a less than stellar night. trumpster-fire IS A CONVICTED FELLON who lies and GRIFTS, 24/7. There is simply NO COMPARISON. WTFU.
I agree there is no comparison. Trump is an evil man. I also believe that except for Gaza (which is a big exception) Biden has been a good president. And I also believe he is the worst candidate we could choose. If Biden wants to serve our country, he should step down and let the Democratic nominee be chosen by an open convention. I think any other candidate they choose would handily beat Trump. Biden might not. Trump told so many horrible lies last night, and Biden was totally ineffective in countering them. In my opinion, the most egregious was when Trump actually accused Democrats of murdering babies. Biden did not even mention that in his reply. All you had to say was “that’s a damn lie“. He could’ve won the debate easily, but he failed miserably.
I highly doubt any swing voters were convinced by Biden, we have to get real about this, its not a sporting event, any other democrat has better odds against Trump in the general
It’s not a sporting event- it’s a war.
Jordan. Now is not the time. You echo the MAGA narrative with this. We’re already on the ride, we’re already in the game, we stand together or we fall as one. Repubs would never make this mistake.
Biden was already losing by a point in polls prior to tonight, he simply will not win in November with the track he's on
It brings me no pleasure to say this but Biden will not win an election as things stand right now. There’s no reason to believe he will rebound from this when he’s four or five months older and even more exhausted from campaigning and being the president. We are on the ride, but have arrived at the last possible exit ramp. If we can’t have a frank and uncomfortable discussion about how to move forward now, we’re going to wind up flying off the edge of the cliff.
Just STFU! What is the matter with you babies!
On Washington Week in review last week, the liberal moderator confided that high level Dem operatives are concerned tht Biden won't make it to November. Another said if Biden doesn't do well in the debate, it is game over. Jordan is right. We need to pull our heads out of the sand, get out of this state of denial and look at another candidate - Jill Stein. Wishful thinking that Biden just might pull it our is not a strategy. We need to get Jill on the ballot. That's my Plan B.
I am not supporting Jill Stein, I'll stick with the Democrats. But we do need a new candidate.
You underestimate the power of angry women and youth. I’m an OBGyn in Texas and I have every right to be downed out right now but it’s just not helpful. So stop. Shake it off. Get ready for a pitched battle but stand and fight.
And also dnkarr the youth I am talking to most are my young OBGyn patients. They are not fooled by distractions because they feel it in their bodies. They will vote blue
Dnkarr- we shoulda but didn’t and that was years ago.
The game has changed and for this present moment we fight with a different strategy: unite all progressive factions to defeat this era’s authoritarianism, and then move more progressive.
Because you’re absolutely right that without youth’s fire we can’t win the long game on climate or justice. But if we don’t all come together and win this year we won’t have a chance to move forward.
That’s what I mean by the long game. It’s like savvy idealism. If progressive factions unite and fight the right enemy now, we can persist to fight more noble battles in 2025. If we fight each other we risk losing it all.
I’d like us all to feel united, but if that’s not possible I’ll try to convince people to just hold hands and vote blue.
Thank you for your thoughtful dialogue. This is how we change the world.🌎
Maryanne- why do you say Congress won’t enact abortion legislation? They will if we win.
And you’re right: we can’t count on youth, but we can try to convince them with our wisdom and experience. Help them understand the long game and the concept of voting defensively.
That’s my plan.
Dr FS: We can try to convince them with our wisdom and experience? Who you talkin to? We should try learning a thing or two from them. They were the enthusiastic progressive Bernie voters who ended up having to capitulate to the Corporate Donor-Beholden Dems. If we had really been listening to them, we might not be where we are today.
Many of the young voters are completely disillusioned with Biden. They know that abortion will not be re-instated by Congress, or the President, so it's a state issue. They are very angry about Gaza. Don't count on them to vote for Biden.